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Interesting interview with this Israeli historian that you can read at Rebelión (in Spanish) or at l'Humanité (in French). I know of no English version but I'll translate some excerpts here. He deals with his book When and How Was the Jewish People Invented?
I am very much Israeli, of Jewish origins. My cultural baggage is not European but especially Israeli. My first words of love were in Hebrew! It is very interesting to find out that Zionism does not acknowledge the Israeli people but still talks of "Jewish people", therefore neither Arab nationalism nor Zionism acknowledge the fact that in the Near East a society, a culture, even, it can be said, a new people that speaks a distinct language has arisen.
(...)
The exodus from Egypt never happened. (...) As historical document the Bible is not valid. I began researching when did the Bible became a historical book.
(...)
The first model [of Jewish nationalism] is the idea of the German nation. A national idea that is not republican, that is not civic, that relies on the notion of "where do we come from?" instead of using that of "where do we go from here", like the national ideas of France and the USA.
Therefore a lineal, totally imaginary, national history was created, beginning with the Bible.
(...)
I am not really sure that there was a Judaistic monotheism before the destruction of the Second Temple, before the destruction of the Kingdom of Judea. There are many archaeologists who think that there was never a large Kingdom of Israel. (...) The Bible is nothing but a mobilizing text to create a God-chosen people.
(...)
All children in Israel know that Tito exiled the Jews in the year 70 AD. (...) Can you believe that there is not a single book on the exile? Specialists know therefore that there was never any exile (...)
Ben Gurion, a great Zionist, believed until the late 1920s that the real descendants of the Judeans (term I use in my book) were the Palestinian peasants who never left the country. There were elites who migrated but, as always happens in history, the large masses of food producers never went anywhere.
(...)
So, if Jews were not really exiled, where did they live? I had not paid any attention to the fact that the Kingdom of Judea forced all its neighbours to convert. First by the sword, like any other religion, and then by persuassion too. Judaism proselytized until the triumph of Christianism. Then it became a religion enclosed in itself. (...) Jewishness is not any essence: it is a great religion. (...) I think that the origin of 80% of modern Jews is in Eastern Europe, notably Khazars and Slavs.
(...)
In Israel we have a regime that is deeply undemocratic, because it does not intend to serve the society but to the Jewish ethnicity throught the World.
(...)
It is the first time that a non-Zionist candidate to the post of Tel Aviv major gathers 34% of votes [communist Dov Khenin].
.
I am very much Israeli, of Jewish origins. My cultural baggage is not European but especially Israeli. My first words of love were in Hebrew! It is very interesting to find out that Zionism does not acknowledge the Israeli people but still talks of "Jewish people", therefore neither Arab nationalism nor Zionism acknowledge the fact that in the Near East a society, a culture, even, it can be said, a new people that speaks a distinct language has arisen.
(...)
The exodus from Egypt never happened. (...) As historical document the Bible is not valid. I began researching when did the Bible became a historical book.
(...)
The first model [of Jewish nationalism] is the idea of the German nation. A national idea that is not republican, that is not civic, that relies on the notion of "where do we come from?" instead of using that of "where do we go from here", like the national ideas of France and the USA.
Therefore a lineal, totally imaginary, national history was created, beginning with the Bible.
(...)
I am not really sure that there was a Judaistic monotheism before the destruction of the Second Temple, before the destruction of the Kingdom of Judea. There are many archaeologists who think that there was never a large Kingdom of Israel. (...) The Bible is nothing but a mobilizing text to create a God-chosen people.
(...)
All children in Israel know that Tito exiled the Jews in the year 70 AD. (...) Can you believe that there is not a single book on the exile? Specialists know therefore that there was never any exile (...)
Ben Gurion, a great Zionist, believed until the late 1920s that the real descendants of the Judeans (term I use in my book) were the Palestinian peasants who never left the country. There were elites who migrated but, as always happens in history, the large masses of food producers never went anywhere.
(...)
So, if Jews were not really exiled, where did they live? I had not paid any attention to the fact that the Kingdom of Judea forced all its neighbours to convert. First by the sword, like any other religion, and then by persuassion too. Judaism proselytized until the triumph of Christianism. Then it became a religion enclosed in itself. (...) Jewishness is not any essence: it is a great religion. (...) I think that the origin of 80% of modern Jews is in Eastern Europe, notably Khazars and Slavs.
(...)
In Israel we have a regime that is deeply undemocratic, because it does not intend to serve the society but to the Jewish ethnicity throught the World.
(...)
It is the first time that a non-Zionist candidate to the post of Tel Aviv major gathers 34% of votes [communist Dov Khenin].
.
5 comments:
It's great to see Israelis criticise the Jewish religion. Like you I have a problem with all religions.
I don't know if you've read Israel Finkelstein's books. If not I'd recommend them. A lot of the argument presented here is in agreement with his conclusions.
The comment you've translated connecting the rise of Zionism with the rise of German nationalism is very interesting. I've just read a book "1848" which deals with the contradictions inherent in the rise of nationalism in that period. Unfortunately I can't remember the author, I've lent the book to a friend.
It's great to see Israelis criticise the Jewish religion.I don't understand the author cricising religion as such but the Bible as supposed historical work. This is very different as many Judaistic, Christians, etc. do not take the Bible to the letter but in their moral and spiritual meaning solely.
The comment you've translated connecting the rise of Zionism with the rise of German nationalism is very interesting.It is rather in coincidence with what Jocahim Martillo writes on his Judonia Rising essay. But Martillo understands that German nationalism was assimilative of Jews before Hitler anyhow and that the real core of Zionism arose in Britain in fact. He argues that German, Russian and French Jews, as well as those in the USA were in the process of fully assimilating and that some leaders of the Jewish communities, notably British, were instead interested in keeping Jews as a distinct community, so they strongly favored Zionism and certainly benefitted from the Holocaust.
I've just read a book "1848" which deals with the contradictions inherent in the rise of nationalism in that period. Unfortunately I can't remember the author, I've lent the book to a friend.Guess it's an interesting read. the late 19th century and to some extent the early 20th century as well were the age of Romanticism and therefore nationalisms. Everywhere there was a search for the roots and often racist ideas that promoted the supposed excellences of each distinct people. It was the time of consolidation of nation-states, a rather new concept that attempted to replace the monarchical structures and ideals of a past that was no more.
"Everywhere there was a search for the roots and often racist ideas that promoted the supposed excellences of each distinct people".
The author is at pains to point out the contradictions involved in those ideas. How Hungarian nationalism gave rise to problems for the Bulgars and Roumanians within the boundaries of the proposed nation of Hungary, in fact any minorities within a proposed nation. You as a Basque would be well aware of that aspect. The problems inherent in the formation of nation states have lasted to the present day, such as the Serb/Croat problems.
The problems inherent in the formation of nation states have lasted to the present day, such as the Serb/Croat problems.The Serb-Croat issues are, IMO, the most ridiculous struggle I have ever witnessed: they speak the same language (dialectal clines have no relation with Serb/Croat/Bosniak divides) and after half a century of secularist regime they should have become all one single nation without further issues. It is realy incredible how the revival of nearly forgotten religious identities has destroyed a nation like the Serbocroat one. Pathetic, IMO.
"The Serb-Croat issues are, IMO, the most ridiculous struggle I have ever witnessed".
Now that's the truth. A lot of people in this region are of Croatian origin (way back, before WWI, and they called themselves Dalmatian) and so we followed the wars here closely.
"the revival of nearly forgotten religious identities has destroyed a nation".
Exactly.
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