tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3563811638411839784.post8779325086129085353..comments2023-05-15T07:11:30.874+02:00Comments on Leherensuge: Finally some good research on R1b1b2!Majuhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3563811638411839784.post-71606403790889413322018-05-28T07:39:17.160+02:002018-05-28T07:39:17.160+02:00CoolCoolbennyghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14407610522727465169noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3563811638411839784.post-86770323726151782842010-05-30T22:37:04.232+02:002010-05-30T22:37:04.232+02:00"I am SNP tested for R-L21* and am negative f..."I am SNP tested for R-L21* and am negative for any other extended deep ancestry test provided by FtDNA".<br /><br />L21 or S21?<br /><br />Because L21 is a marker for R1b1b2a1a2f, which, following Wikipedia, "is common in Britain, Ireland and possibly Northern France". <br /><br />S21 instead defines R1b1b2a1a1, a couple of steps upstream. <br /><br />Anyhow, I made a quick check of haplotypes listed in the Balaresque paper (the data is good, not so much the analysis) and I did a find possible match in Turkey and quasi-matches in the Netherlands (1), England (1), Germany(1), Turkey (quite common)... 1 step apart in DYS 388 (she does not use DYS 557) from what you mention. There is also a quasi-match which changes in the DYS 393 (England). <br /><br />But I am just comparing three STR markers. :(<br /><br />I would trust the SNP test and, if in great doubt, do it again. What SNP markers say is the truth within the phylogeny, as far as we can tell, STR haplotypes are only proxies and occasionally at least may be misleading. <br /><br />"I have run into a brick wall using pedigreed mutation rates, I think they compress time".<br /><br />They do, of course. That's their virtue or vice, depending on your point of view.Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3563811638411839784.post-18921119256887888372010-05-30T20:51:04.721+02:002010-05-30T20:51:04.721+02:00Maju: I've talked to you before. My Ysearch ...Maju: I've talked to you before. My Ysearch is z5hg3. I am SNP tested for R-L21* and am negative for any other extended deep ancestry test provided by FtDNA.<br /><br />I know that VV has said this article is "fatally flawed", which means he doesn't agree with it. Before I was SNP tested I was told I was Eastern European/Asian, mostly because of my 12 @ 393 and 13 @ 388, 23 at 390. I also have a 14 at 557 which is almost unique to me. I have run into a brick wall using pedigreed mutation rates, I think they compress time. I know the MC is not your cup of tea, but Zhivotovsky makes more sense to me for longer tMRCA estimates. My heritage is scottish and I have a direct line back to scotland in about 1650. How would you approach evaluating the haplotype I have?McGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03459589185170647441noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3563811638411839784.post-1163784136726962932010-05-25T20:03:43.466+02:002010-05-25T20:03:43.466+02:00Hi, Natsuya. Thanks for the notice. Sadly it doesn...Hi, Natsuya. Thanks for the notice. Sadly it doesn't seem that the paper is published yet. <br /><br />I found that Dienekes had <a href="http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2010/05/complex-picture-of-r-m269-dispersal.html" rel="nofollow">already commented</a> on it a couple of weeks ago.Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3563811638411839784.post-41656160269580431642010-05-25T17:12:13.275+02:002010-05-25T17:12:13.275+02:00Hey Maju, you may be interested in this upcoming p...Hey Maju, you may be interested in this upcoming paper:<br /><br />Increased Resolution Within Y-Chromosome Haplogroup R1b M269 <br />Sheds Light On The Neolithic Transition In Europe<br /><br />George Busby et al.<br /><br />Early studies on classical polymorphisms have largely been vindicated by the growing tome of information on the genetic structure of European populations, with mtDNA, Y-Chromosome and autosomal markers all combining to give a fundamental pattern of migration from the East. The processes behind this pattern are however, less clear, particularly with regard to uniparental markers. Much debate still rages about how best to use Y and mtDNA to date particular historical movements, or indeed if it is appropriate at all. For example, whilst some progress has been made recently in calibrating the mtDNA clock, the selection of a mutation rate with which to date the Y-Chromosome is contentious, as the two most favoured values can give dates that differ by a factor of three.<br /><br />In order to address this we have investigated the sub-lineages of the common European haplogroup R1b-M269. This haplogroup has been shown to be clinal in Europe, and more recently has been posited to be the result of the Neolithic expansion from the Near East. Here, we use newly characterised SNPs downstream of M269 to produce a refined picture of the haplogroup in Europe, and further show that the diversity of this lineage cannot be entirely attributed to Neolithic migration out of Anatolia. We use simple coalescent simulations to estimate an absolute lower bound for the age of the sub-haplogoups. Rather than originating with the farmers from the East, we suggest that the sub-structure of R1b-M269 visible in Europe today, and thus the great majority of European paternal ancestry, is the result of the interaction between the Neolithic wave of expansion and populations of early Europeans already present in the path of the wave. <br /><br />http://www.yhrd.org/files/7th_y_user_workshop_programme_abstracts.pdfMasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03226049899081714570noreply@blogger.com