tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3563811638411839784.post5076747291176438463..comments2023-05-15T07:11:30.874+02:00Comments on Leherensuge: Genetic comparisons of Basques and JewsMajuhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3563811638411839784.post-9409465513689941592017-02-15T02:57:12.956+01:002017-02-15T02:57:12.956+01:00I agree maju Cypriots many of them have the mark o...I agree maju Cypriots many of them have the mark of CAIN the HOOKNOSE. And can't farn to save their souls. Channia was buried theur as well during the Minoan period Channia= CAIN! Jewish commedian Carol Channing? SARGON CZAR KHAN= KING KAIN! Yes maju concerning Cyprus you are right on the MONEY the cypriots are not EDOMITES but they arw descendants of CAIN! Esay married two daughters of Canaan. and canaan aside from being cursed from Noah's family married a wife or wives of the daughters of cain and and esau did marry Judith the Hittite Judith means female jewess. But isn't that before Judah was born? Yes the imposters are blood brothers with the Cypriots. Note Cypriots are part greek and ither blood from invaders including Germa blood from WW2 as well ad neolithic ancestry hg G.ANONYMOUShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11637220586124496874noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3563811638411839784.post-41177148391719412992012-11-03T03:12:08.711+01:002012-11-03T03:12:08.711+01:00Jokes apart, Mooser, in genetic analysis at the ti...Jokes apart, Mooser, in genetic analysis at the time it looked to me that way. Today I would have a much more nuanced analysis to share, which points directly to Cyprus and probably parts of Turkey as the most direct relatives of modern Western Jews in terms of autosomal genetics. Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3563811638411839784.post-86966984761937359282012-11-02T18:59:02.836+01:002012-11-02T18:59:02.836+01:00What you people don't seem to understand is th...What you people don't seem to understand is that when you become Jewish, you change your genes. At least twice a week.Mooserhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12294208692136002450noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3563811638411839784.post-46768235173430736622012-11-02T18:55:02.310+01:002012-11-02T18:55:02.310+01:00"Jews seem impossible to take apart from othe..."Jews seem impossible to take apart from other Eastern Mediterraneans (Greeks, Armenians, South Italians, Adigey) but they seem somewhat distinct"<br /><br />Can't understand why you say that? I've been at some delightful all-Jewish parties. Sure, I prefer more diverse company most of the time.Mooserhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12294208692136002450noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3563811638411839784.post-91111682443916487122010-06-14T13:19:45.136+02:002010-06-14T13:19:45.136+02:00"Your "boat" is one of misinformati..."Your "boat" is one of misinformation in the interest of your politics".<br /><br />I am willing to be criticized if that happens to be true. I hope not. <br /><br />In any case we all have bias and don't dare tell me that you are "apolitical". You have a very clear ultra-right nationalist orientation, bordering fascism if it's not plainly covert fascism (not sure if there's a difference). I still have managed to respect you somewhat because you allow for free discussion, provide useful information and now and then we even agree in something. <br /><br />I wouldn't mind some reciprocity. <br /><br />One thing is clear: I am not covert anything: I speak loud and clear. But I would not like my political opinions to muddle my anthropological analysis, specially as I think that this last is pretty much irrelevant, so I welcome constructive criticism.<br /><br />Thanks for visiting again.Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3563811638411839784.post-52394348779553793312010-06-14T13:14:19.939+02:002010-06-14T13:14:19.939+02:00By "in the same boat" I meant that we bo...By "in the same boat" I meant that we both ignored at that moment if the subgroup within ESE that clusters here with Western Jews were Turks or Cypriots. Now it seems evident it must be Cypriots. <br /><br />I don't think we are in the same boat in anything else except for sharing interest in genetics and anthropology (but from very different viewpoints). <br /><br />Until this past week, research on Jewish ancestry had avoided the key issues I was denouncing. Even in this paper, the striking overlap of Cypriots and Western Jews is hidden into the supplemental material and not addressed on its own merit, which is worth a much more explicit attention. <br /><br />Finally Behar and company have got the bull by the horns. I have criticized Behar in the past and now I applaud him. I'm really glad that some Israeli researchers are at least somewhat overcoming their preconceptions and fears. <br /><br />You should do the same.Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3563811638411839784.post-18970703113026471252010-06-14T11:30:19.360+02:002010-06-14T11:30:19.360+02:00We are in the same boat in this, Dienekes.
No, we...<i>We are in the same boat in this, Dienekes.</i><br /><br />No, we are not. You claim erroneously that "Zionist researchers" avoid comparing Jews with Greeks. I gave you three studies in which that is not the case. You claim erroneously that "Zionist researchers" want to hide the fact that Jews are impossible to tell apart from Greeks and Armenians, while the studies clearly indicate that both Greeks and Armenians are clearly distinguished from Jews.<br /><br />Your "boat" is one of misinformation in the interest of your politics.Dienekeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3563811638411839784.post-41058355345629964472010-06-14T11:28:38.306+02:002010-06-14T11:28:38.306+02:00This comment has been removed by the author.Dienekeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3563811638411839784.post-22357748968618015092010-06-08T14:55:57.743+02:002010-06-08T14:55:57.743+02:00We are in the same boat in this, Dienekes. But Cyp...We are in the same boat in this, Dienekes. But Cypriot or Turk, it is most intriguing in any case. You said it was four the number of Turks and I think it's also four the number of ESE dots clustering along the core Jewish cluster - but not 100% sure.<br /><br />In the PC1-PC3 they cluster even better (though Western Jews don't cluster so well anymore). <br /><br />I've been reviewing right now the Fst distances and I'll post a brief update on that now. Iranian and Iraqi Jews are very different from Western Jews on that value (Iranian Jews are as distant as Basques or Russians, the most distinct outgroups, while Iraqi Jews are more average), what doesn't say much in favor of a joint origin. <br /><br />Palestinians instead are much closer, to Western Jews, though (oddly enough) not more than North Italians and only slightly more than French. <br /><br />Turkish Jews (followed by Greek Jews at short distance) would seem the most representative population of what we could call "genuine Western Jewishness". <br /><br />Sadly no "ESE" sample is compared in that figure so I really think that they are sweetening the analysis somewhat because, without preconceptions, this ESE population looks really worth a much more extensive analysis. <br /><br />Also (important), I suspect that there's a typo in the labeling of Palestinians and Bedouins in the main PC graphs, because in the Fst table, Palestinians are consistently much closer to Jews (and other populations) than Bedouins.Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3563811638411839784.post-12449492877832967082010-06-08T13:48:01.176+02:002010-06-08T13:48:01.176+02:00The ESE group has a part near the Jews and another...The ESE group has a part near the Jews and another part that stands apart. I don't know which part is Cypriot and which part is Turkish.Dienekeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3563811638411839784.post-67779090257130931802010-06-08T11:27:14.375+02:002010-06-08T11:27:14.375+02:00Dienekes: someone sent me the paper and that ESE g...Dienekes: someone sent me the paper and that ESE group that so much approximates the main Jewish cluster is made up of Turks and Cypriots. <br /><br />It's a principle of evidence in support for the Anatolian hypothesis. Very curious. :)Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3563811638411839784.post-2148917488844991822010-06-07T13:21:01.003+02:002010-06-07T13:21:01.003+02:00@Manju:
The data here doesn't seem to support...@Manju:<br /><br />The data here doesn't seem to support your hypothesis, with Iranian Jews clustering apart. However it may well be because Ashkenazi have a strong Euro component. Y-DNA in any case can well not be as directly important to overall ancestry, specially in a population that undoubtedly went through very specific and clear founder effects, such Ashkenazi.Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3563811638411839784.post-7714463106404474222010-06-07T13:16:11.613+02:002010-06-07T13:16:11.613+02:00@Dienekes:
Thanks for the link to the supp. mater...@Dienekes:<br /><br />Thanks for the link to the supp. material graphs. <br /><br />I'm presuming that the letters indicate geographical location in Europe, so 'ESE' are Adigey and 'S' are Italians, right?<br /><br />Now I understand better why Gioello's theory of an Italian founder effect, according to which Jews would be essentially... Romans!<br /><br />But, notwithstanding that he might be onto something, I still think that there should be a more direct connection with Anatolia and/or Syria. Or maybe they are recycled Armenians/Kurds? There's a systematic blank there that needs to be analyzed and is being ignored all the time.<br /><br />"As for my alleged claim that Basques should be genetically identical to all other Iberians, stop imagining things".<br /><br />Maybe it's a misunderstanding but I can only quote your own words:<br /><br />"The more I learn about Basques, the more I am convinced that they are simply Iberians who picked up their non-IE language while other Iberians picked up Latin. I wouldn't be surprised if the 2k of linguistic separation from Romance speakers may have caused some genetic divergence, but it's clearly not much, and clearly not indicative of any really long process of isolation".<br /><br />As I said then, I think that the genetic data is pretty solid in support of a clear difference.Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3563811638411839784.post-26713317886545973332010-06-07T11:48:31.611+02:002010-06-07T11:48:31.611+02:00Greeks are clearly distinct from Jews (bottom left...Greeks are clearly distinct from Jews (bottom left figure, taken from the supplement; some Greeks are included in the SE group with other Balkan people, and none of them appear to be particularly close to Jews)<br /><br />http://greekgenetics.blogspot.com/2010/06/blog-post.html<br /><br />See also from Price et al.<br /><br />http://dienekes.50webs.com/arp/articles/greekadna/price.jpg<br /><br />or Tian et al.<br /><br />http://dienekes.50webs.com/arp/articles/greekadna/tian.jpg<br /><br />As for my alleged claim that Basques should be genetically <b>identical</b> to <b>all</b> other Iberians, stop imagining things.Dienekeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.com